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Home: Topics of Interest: WONDERFUL | IMPORTANT | CONTROVERSIAL

OK--no personal URL's or e-mails unless anyone specifically wants theirs mentioned. Also, it will mainly be for special topics. It takes time to put together a complete subject. I've recently had a couple of interesting e-mails come in (and answers out) so the easiest way to get around this is with a page like this. Messages may be edited.


Also, any interesting topics will be linked here: Heaven's Gate 1 ; Wednesday Crucifixion? ; Heaven's Gate 2 ; Is Satan a UFO? ; Rationalist Association of New South Wales, & Athiest Association of America ; John Keel: Operation Trojan Horse ; Oiuja boards,  mediums ; Ashtar, Ashtaroth


From Melissa, Thu, 27 Mar 1997.

Any idea what is going on? I`ve been on the net for a while and this is not a shook but never heard of this group before.Got a good answer from Mark in NC who said he knows of the coming but must not have been on the next level to get the message. Missy

Dear Melissa

just a quick reply. Here are two possible answers depending on which way you meant the question.

A. A very dangerous move or change in tactics by the enemy. The old tactics may still be there. Step one was to give prophecies and have the people caught up in giving dates events etc that would not come to pass and leave the adherents in derision or humiliation. A simple example of this is the Danish cult mentioned in Psychic Roulette (and put in my tract). The tactic of the enemy appears now to be have people actually TAKE THEIR LIVES!!! That is a final move that is pretty well irreversible. AND it doesn't give the unfortunate people caught up in the delusion another chance to sort their lives out. That is very sad and appears to be why the enemy is doing it.

B. Heaven's Gate. Same old lie. This one has worked for the enemy for the last 6000 years. It's just been tailored a little bit here and there. The tell-tale marks of the enemy himself. SATAN. The very first lie recorded is:
Gen 3:4,5 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

There it is. Clear as crystal. These people were led to believe a lie, THAT:
1. They would not die. Death would actually be a doorway to a higher existence. It would be a gate to heaven--Heaven's Gate.
2. They would become as gods--by going through the doorway they would come into a higher existence.

The two lies are tied together. They go hand in hand.

It is also sad that so many christians believe a similar teaching. That the doorway to heaven is death. That at death we go immediately to our reward (whether that be heaven or hell).
The truth of the matter is that the dead in Christ are resting in the grave until the resurrection day:

Note John 11:23,24 "Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

The christian's hope is in the resurrection and glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ:
Note 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Also consider the following verses:

Matthew 22:31, 32 "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
Mark 12:26,27 "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."
Luke 20:37, 38 "Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."
John 10:9, 10 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

Note the last verses!!! The DOOR is JESUS, not DEATH. JESUS came to give LIFE. Who comes to give death? The thief (SATAN) comes to steal, and to KILL, and to destroy, that is: for DEATH.
There is a GATE to HEAVEN. It is JESUS, not death.

--just some thoughts there.

[Goto Heaven's Gate 2]

kind regards
&
yours in the Faith of Jesus
Stephen Buckley

From dlester, Sat, 12 Apr 1997.

We are in total agreement on the biblical Sabbath day. Only the deceived keep Sunday, or one of satan's children. However, I must point out an
error in your article. The day of Jesus' death was not "Good Friday". Our Lord was killed in the middle of the week, Wednesday. His death occurred
at about the same time as the sacrificial lambs were slain on the Preperation day ( day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread or 14th of Nisan ). This is evident in the statement about the Sabbath day after His death being a "high Sabbath". This is refering to the first day of Unleavened Bread on the 15th of Nisan (Leviticus 23). This day is a "holy convocation". Therefore, Friday is the day Mary bought and prepared for the balming process. This would be followed by the weekly Sabbath or Saturday in which they rested. If you can figure three days and nights into "Good Friday" till Sunday, I'd like to know how.

	                                                   Sincerely,
dlester

Dear dlester

thank you for your letter and am glad that you agree on the biblical seventh day sabbath. The rest of your letter is a little puzzling. I had heard of this belief in Jesus being killed on Wednesday, but you are the first person to write to me about it. I have some material at home about this and I have not quite got to the end of it yet. However, I have probably looked into this enough so far to answer your letter.

Ignoring the preparation day part (this has been answered by other people and will be part of a general response page -- this topic is worth following up), I am going to concentrate here on the part "figuring three days and nights into Good Friday till Sunday" as you put it.

The whole point is, you don't have to. The Bible nowhere says that Jesus was in the grave for three days and three nights. It does say that:
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40. If you want to read that as three days and three nights in the grave, then that is your interpretation and not necessarily what the Bible means at all.

PROOF1:
Let's take it as three days and nights in the grave and see how we go.
Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; Mark 10:34; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7, 18-21, 46 all say something different.

MATT 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

MATT 17:23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

MATT 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

MARK 10:34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

LUKE 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

LUKE 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

LUKE 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

LUKE 24:18-21 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

LUKE 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

So there it is. What the Bible actually says is that Jesus would go to Jerusalem (there's a clue as to what the heart of the earth might mean), be rejected of the elders and chief priests, be delivered to the gentiles and suffer (be scourged etc) and be crucified and die and then he would rise on the third day.
It's a little bit different, isn't it?

PROOF2:
Again, let's take it as three days and nights in the grave and see how we go.
We're agreed on the biblical seventh-day sabbath, as you say. That means we agree (correctly) that Bible days run from sunset to sunset and that the seventh-day sabbath actually begins at Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset.

LEV 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

MAR 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

Very well, let's count back from very early on Sunday morning (the first day of the week) when it began to dawn (See Matthew 28:1-4)-- this was the time of the resurrection. This time cannot be denied. It happened at dawn on Sunday according to the Word of the Living God. IT IS AFTER THE NIGHT PART OF THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. COUNTING BACK THREE NIGHTS TAKES US TO THURSDAY, NOT WEDNESDAY. Remember, Matthew 27:46-50 tells us that Jesus died at the ninth hour of the day. This is during the light part of the day.
IF THE CRUCIFIXION WAS ON WEDNESDAY (DEATH AT NINTH HOUR) THEN JESUS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GRAVE 4 (FOUR) NIGHTS TO GET TO RISE AT DAWN ON SUNDAY MORNING. HERE THEY ARE:

  |   WED   |   THU   |    FRI    |    SAT    |   SUN   |    end line 1
NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT| DAY |NIGHT| DAY |NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT| end line 2
4TH DAY| 5TH DAY |PREPARATION|7DAYSABBATH| 1ST DAY | end line 3
* 1N 2N 3N 4N * end line 4

***See note below*** [Goto Corrected Diagram below]
(if this diagram looks squashed, reformat it to Courier font and make sure it fits on 4 lines with the line endings at the end of each line)

The first star represents the "death" of Jesus on Wednesday afternoon.
The second star represents the resurrection of Jesus at dawn on the first day of the week. This corresponds to our Sunday.
As I said, that's 4 NIGHTS from Wednesday, not Three.

Well, what else could I say?

kind regards
and yours in the Faith of Jesus,
Stephen Buckley

NOTE: I have received a reply telling me that the resurrection should more correctly be before sunrise on Sunday:

Received from Delwin Lester, Tue, 22 Apr 1997.

I am a bit concerned in your understanding of an Israelite society, and
your belief that Christ rose in the morning on Sunday.

Matthew 28:

1 After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary
Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.
2 And suddenly there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord,
descending from heaven, came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.
4 For fear of him the guards shook and became like dead men.
5 But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid; I know that you
are looking for Jesus who was crucified.
6 He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said.
Verse 6 states "he has been raised" PAST TENSE. The fact both
Marys came early in the morning does not imply Christ was still there.

Mark 16: (1 to 6 quoted)
...
6 But he said to them, "Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of
Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here.
Again, verse 6 "He has been raised" is past tense. Thre is no
implication as to Christ being raised at that time. The Marys came at
this time because now the weekly Sabbath and the "High Sabbath" (First
Day of Unleavened Bread) were over.

John 20:
1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary
Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from
the tomb.
The stone had been removed is past tense with no hint of "rising"
going on. They came "early on the first day" because the weekly Sabbath
was over and now it was getting light enough to see. Being raised on a
farm, I have gotten up before daylight to begin chores.

John 19:
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies
should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath
day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken,
and that they might be taken away.
Remember, this was an Israelite society keeping the commanded Holy
Days. (Lev. 23) After the preparation day, the next day is a commanded
sabbath. My family and I keep these commandments, so all work must be
completed before sunset.
...
Being a "Jewish Christian", my family still maintains the Holy
Days and the faith of Jesus. It is only the sacrificial laws that have ended.
The blood offerings ended with Christ.

With knowledge of the workings of the Israelite society during Christ
time, It becomes very apparent Wednesday is the only day that will allow
time for two sabbaths and a day to buy and prepare spices and ointments.
This also fulfills the three days and three nights in the heart of the
earth. The language of Christ's time means in the grave.

Since the Marys did not get to the tomb until Sunday morning, and the
bible states He had already risen, it cannot be precisely said what time
Christ rose. What if He rose at sunset between Saturday and Sunday? This
would be on the thrid day, and since the burial was rapidly done before
sunset (High Sabbath) makes the best sense.
If you bury at or just before sunset, three days and three nights will
be at or just before sunset.

Keep Praying,
The Lesters

Dear Lesters

I think you have an interesting point on the actual time of the resurrection. I went away wondering if anyone was going to respond to what I had put together.
I gave it a little thought and came to the conclusion that whether Christ was raised just at the daylight part of the First day of the week, or just before, it didn't really matter to the conclusion of the discussion. Christ would still have had to be in the grave 4 nights from Wednesday. This is clear. I also have a larger study on this I am putting together to go on the Sabbath-day Page. Keep watching!

Thanks for the comments. I have learned a lot this week about this.

kind regards and
yours in the Faith of Jesus,
Stephen Buckley

Let's check all this. The Gospel accounts are as follows:

MATTHEW 28:1-4 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

MARK 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

JOHN 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

From these accounts it appears that the resurrection happened as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, while it was yet dark. So we will move the second star for the resurrection to just before the daylight part of Sunday. Remember though, it was at the end of the night. That is the important part and this minor correction still does not detract from the rest of the study. Jesus still would have been in the grave for 4 NIGHTS from a Wednesday crucifixion. That was the main point we were considering. Corrected diagram follows:

  |   WED   |   THU   |    FRI    |    SAT    |   SUN   |    end line 1
NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT| DAY |NIGHT| DAY |NIGHT|DAY|NIGHT| end line 2
4TH DAY| 5TH DAY |PREPARATION|7DAYSABBATH| 1ST DAY | end line 3
* 1N 2N 3N 4N * end line 4

Another reply from the Lesters:
Note: this letter was titled: "Missed the Point"

From Delwin Lester
Wed, 23 Apr 1997

It is not the daylight or early morning I said, but the sunset of
Saturday. This makes it only three nights. If you are buried at or near
sunset, then 72 hours later is at or near sunset! You have succumb to
the same error of most of the world. You have accepted the lie of the
Catholic church, and now you are trying to prove the Sunday morning. You
are starting from a false premise. You now see how satan has deceived
the world in so many ways. He uses subtle twisting and removing from
context of the time. The morning sunrise is a throw back to the sun
worship of ancient Rome and before. This is exactly what the day means
(Sun day).
They would rise before dawn and face East and give honor to the rising
sun. In the newly forming Roman Catholic church, they wanted to "please"
these people, so an amalgamation was created between "Christian" and
pagan. This is an abomination to God.

Ezekiel 8: (13-18 quoted)
.....

Much is written concernig this creation. History is extant about the
goddess Ishtar or Astarte, pronounced Easter in modern English. Simply
look up Easter in a good encyclopedia or, for the confession, go to the
Catholic Encyclopedia. They convict themselves. If a university is at
hand, I recommend there resources:
	The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop
Ninaveh and Babylon, by Austen Layard
Mythology and Rites of the British Druids, by Edward Davies
Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought, by James Bonwick
Encyclopedia Britannica (11th ed. Vol. VIII, pp. 828-829)
Ecclesiastical History, book V, chapters XXIII and XXIV
The Quatrodecimen Controversy, Catholic Enc.
etc. etc.
Wed          Thrus          Fri           Sat      72 hours later
death, 1 night 1 night 1 night appears to be near
buried near 1 day 1 day 1 day sunset Saturday
sunset
However, if one dosen't think Wednesday was the death, then the
resurrection is still at or near sunset. Pick a day! It CANNOT be early
morning or late at night and be three days and nights. But, the Marys
came to the tomb on the first day of the week and they where Jewish.
This only leaves Wednesday, 31 A.D.

Always remember the bible was written by Jews (Israelites), and it has
to be understood from that society's point of veiw and time.

Rev. 12: (verse 9 quoted)
...

God's Kingdom Come,
Delwin

Reply:
Dear Delwin Lester

Sorry, but it is you that have missed the point. I did not refer to the Catholic Church, but the Bible, the Word of the living God. It is VERY clear from Matthew 28:1-4 that the resurrection took place at dawn on Sunday morning (the first day of the week).

Note also Matthew 27:63,64:

"Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first."

This verse says that the sepulchre was to be made sure until the third day. Cleopas (Luke 24:20-12) stated that (on the first day of the week):

"But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."

That is, that the first day of the week (not the seventh) was the third day.

Further look at Matthew 28:1-4 closely:

MATTHEW 28:1-4 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

The sepulchre was to be made sure until the third day. The soldiers were there until the resurrection. The stone was in place until the resurrection. The angel of the Lord came down to roll away the stone for Jesus to come forth out of the tomb.
You would have us believe that the angel (or Jesus) rolled BACK (closing the tomb) the stone AND that the soldiers still hung aroung guarding an empty tomb?

Why not believe the Bible for what it says. I am not quoting the Catholic Church on this, but the Bible.
If you want to believe that the resurrection took place just before sunset on the seventh day of the week, then that is your prerogative, but the Bible does not support such a view.

kind regards
and yours in the Faith of Jesus,
Stephen Buckley

From: Delwin Lester
Thu, 24 Apr 1997

The verses you refer to NEVER state Christ was rising, or He came out
after the earthquake. The stone had to be moved so the humans could see
for themselves that Christ "had risen". I have never seen a verse that
says Jesus came forth after the stone was removed. Your words, "The
angel of the Lord came down to roll away the stone for Jesus to come
out of the tomb", are not in the bible! As the bible states, the women
came near dawn and saw an EMPTY tomb. The angel moved the stone so they
could be wittnesses to this fact.

Neither am I quoting the Catholic Church, when it comes to the bible
(Remember I'm Jewish). I was attempting to get you to see where this
belief came from. Christ did not need the stone moved for his exit. He
is a spirit being and can and DID walk though walls. Remember
his appearing to the disciples when the door was locked. The fact
remains; 72 hours after a sunset or near sunset burial is at or near
sunset. In Jewish time keeping, this would be the third day.

Matthew 12:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of
the earth.
Heart comes from the Greek word (kardia) meaning central or inmost
part, even though inanimate.
Earth comes from (ge) meaning land or the earth.

I believe Christ spoke the truth about 3 days and 3 nights, so this
only leaves 72 hours after He went into the tomb. Rising in the morning
would be 12 hours off, either way.
Early in the morning, if I came to your house and found you gone, would
I know if you left that morning or evening before? Even if your
neighbor opened the door to show me you where gone, I would not know.
However, Christ gave a sign when He would leave the tomb. 72 hours. No
more, no less.

Till The Eternal Comes,
Delwin

Reply:
Dear Delwin

tit for tat.
You have no verse to prove that Jesus came out of the tomb earlier.

I have other topics to move on to. We have pretty well covered this one as much as it needs. The full answer is now on my Topics page. [*this was a minor mistake--it is on the Sabbath day Page--SB (2011 correction: all material now on Topics page)]
As I said, It's your prerogative to believe that Jesus was raised before the angel came down and rolled away the stone. The argument that Jesus probably walked through the wall, I believe, is pretty poor. But, then, that's MY prerogative.

kind regards
and yours in the Faith of Jesus,
Stephen Buckley

Delwin replies:

You must be ignoring the verses I put in. They clearly state what Christ
said,"three days and three nights". Seventy-two hours after an evening
burial is an evening resurrection. Let me see if I have you right.
Rising from the dead, healing blind, feeding thousands, raising others
from dead, walking on water, ascending on a cloud, and, by the way,
being the son of God, but walking through a wall is poor! Was He not
raised a spirit being?

Please read how the Catholic Chruch started the Easter and Good Friday
traditions. It is the same way they started Sunday. (Christmas too!)

Leviticus 23:
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye
shall proclaim in their seasons.
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S
passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened
bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no
servile work therein.
8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days:
in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work
therein.
This is the high sabbath referred in John 19:31. Then friday was a day
the women could buy and work. Then rested on Sabbath (Saturday). These
are the three days and nights.

Matthew 12:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so
shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the
earth.

John 11:
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?
3 x 12= 36 (3 days) + 3 x 12= 36 (3 nights) 36 + 36= 72 hours

...
[some other verses referred to from Matthew 15; Mark 7; Colossians 2;
Revelation 2; 3; 12; & 14.]
...
Till Jesus Returns,
Delwin

Dear Delwin
Again you seem to have missed the point. You still have not been able to produce one verse that proved that Jesus was raised before the angel rolled away the stone.
Your belief is your prerogative, as I said.
On Jesus being a spirit as you said, is also ignoring scripture.

Luke 24:36-43
"And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

And he took it, and did eat before them."

Anyway, think about it. I don't want this to drag on. I have other things I need to attend to. This topic on the Wednesday Crucifixion, to my thinking, has been covered. I do thank you for bringing it to my attention, and yes, some of the points you raised have helped me in my understanding of this view. But we obviously have to differ in our beliefs. That is my prerogative (and yours).

kind regards
and yours in the Faith of Jesus,
Stephen Buckley

Next letter follows:

From dcecil Fri, 18 Apr 97.

steve,
its bad enough buying the whole god thing, but satan as a UFO? Come 'on, get a grip.

Dear DCecil

hey, I never said that Satan was a UFO (curious) BUT
if there is such a created being as Satan with all the power that the Bible invests him with
THEN
he certainly has the power to mastermind a worldwide deception which the UFO phenomenon does fit.

Think this one through:

Why are so many people being fed the lie that when a person dies they are not really dead but somewhere else
for example
heaven
purgatory
another state of existence
transported to a UFO (read about that lately??? that's what the cult involved with Heaven's Gate was all about).

If the Bible says that the "Dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING" then who is lying??

The first lie was all about this--recorded in the Bible

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4.

God says that people die. ".. the soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:4.
Satan (speaking through a serpent) said : "Ye shall not surely die."

People are willing to believe that lie. A whole group of people just took their lives because of this.

This is no laughing matter.
This is a deadly serious game.
The enemy is playing for keeps.
The whole world is involved.
Only those whose minds are fortified with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great deceptions that are coming upon the world.

anyway, I'd better end this reply.
I did subscribe to the Rationalist Association of New South Wales for about half a year back in 1980. I was handed a sheet from (would you believe it) the AAA (Athiest Association of America) one day when I was walking to work and I wrote to them overseas and received a book in the mail from someone writing in NSW. Anyway, after listening to both sides I became a Christian. That's another story.

There is something out there.
Something is answering prayers.
And whatever it is, it is going by that little black book.
The Book tells us what it is.
Seek--and you shall find.
The answers are all there.

See Isaiah Chapter 53.
Who could that chapter be about?? Written HUNDREDS of years before the events foretold took place.

something to chew over.

kind regards
and
yours in the Faith of Jesus
Stephen Buckley

From amanda martinez
Thursday, 13-Nov-97 01:49 PM

Hi I was just reading the topic on UFOS and the bible and it was really interesting. I have to do a debate on life on other planets or UFOS do you have other information you can send me please. Thanyou

Amanda

Dear Amanda

I got hold of another copy of John Keel's book "UFOs Operation Trojan Horse" and started going through it again looking for any revealing quotes. I found them. I also haven't had time to pursue this for a while. But the main quote I found (of quite a few) was that the same powers behind demons and the occult appear to be working behind the UFO phenomenon. That from John Keel. I'll get you the proper quote over the weekend. (I have the book at home). More John Keel

That said--we are working here against a spiritual confederacy of higher created beings who have supernatural power and intelligence of many thousands of years. Their plan is to deceive people and lead them astray. The Bible refers to these intelligent beings as Satan and his fallen angels. They will speak through people (when they want to) and answer questions. They have the power to materialise objects and move them around the sky defying all known laws of nature. Hard objects have been materialised for short periods of time just to try to convince people that they are real. Bullets have been fired at them and bounced off.

The only defense against these hidden intelligent malevalent powers is to join the other side.
There are only two sides. There is no inbetween ground. There are no spectators in this war--at least on this planet--all the unfallen worlds are watching with great interest the unfolding of the great plan of salvation and the great controversy between Christ and His angels and Satan and his angels.

A good book to read that covers most of this controversy is "The Story of Redemption" by Ellen G. White.
A much larger reading is what is called the Conflict of the Ages series, which is a set of 5 books--but I would recommend the small book first for a good introduction.

kind regards
Stephen Buckley

Reply sent: 19/11/97

Dear Amanda

I completely forgot about your letter over the weekend. I found my copy of John Keel's book and had a look at it today. There appears to be a wealth of information in it that is really very clear to the Christian viewpoint (though I do not completely agree with John's thoughts on the Bible). Many people who get caught up in the UFO phenomenon must be unaware that the Bible has so much to say about these things. Here's some gems from John's book:

The following from John Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse.

The statistical data which I have extracted, and which I have tried to summarize briefly here, indicate that flying saucers are not stable machines requiring fuel, maintenance, and logistical support. They are, in all probability, transmogrifications of energy and do not exist in the same way that this book exists. They are not permanent constructions of matter. p. 182.

The endless messages from the space people would now fill a library, and while the communicators claim to represent some other world, the contents of those messages are identical to the messages long received by mediums and mystics. p. 183.

UFO events seem to occur century after century in the same geographical locations. A majority of these events took place on Wednesdays and Saturdays and were concentrated around the hours of 6 P.M., 8 P.M., and 10 P.M. These facts in themselves are proof that the phenomenon is guided by an intelligence and that the individual events form part of a larger plan. p. 195.

Thousands of mediums, psychics, and UFO contactees have been receiving mountains of messages from "Ashtar" in recent years. Mr. Ashtar represents himself as a leader in the great intergalactic councils which hold regular meetings on Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and many planets unknown to us. But Ashtar is not a new arrival. Variations of this name, such as Ashtaroth, Ashar, Asharoth, etc., appear in demonological literature throughout history, both in the Orient and the Occident. Mr. Ashtar has been around a very long time, posing as assorted gods and demons and now, in the modern phase, as another glorious spaceman. p. 230.

I cannot even begin to review all of the occult evidence here, but there are dozens of excellent books available covering the whole spectrum of spiritual events. If you take the time and trouble to examine some of the better literature, you will find precise parallels and correlations with the UFO phenomenon. It appears that the same forces are at work in both situations, the same patterns prevail (particularly the hoax patterns), and the same underlying purposes seem to be present. p. 235.

(John comments about a prophecy of a holocaust on December 24, 1967) ..
Meanwhile, mediums, telepaths, sensitives, and UFO contactees throughout the world were all reporting identical messages. There was definitely going to be an unprecedented event on December 24, 1967. Ashtar was talking through Ouija boards to people who had never before heard the name. Another busy entity named Orlon was spreading the word. The curious thing about these messages was that they were all phrased in the same manner, no matter what language was being used. They all carried the same warning. p. 282.

Many predictions of the December twenty-fourth disaster had been documented well in advance of that date. These messages came through in many different countries, from people who had no knowledge of or communication with one another. The UFO contactees received the same identical messages as the trance mediums communing with spirits. A link had been established. It was now clear (to me anyway) that all of these people were tuned into a central source. My earlier speculations seemed true--the UFO entities and the spirit entities were part of the same gigantic system. .. Some of the entities were evil liars. p. 283. Comment added by John Keel.

The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon. p. 299.

Finally this gem from John Keel, on the top of page 306:

The Bible warns us that during "the last days" this planet will be overrun with wonders in the sky and false prophets and performers of miracles.

Could anyone else have said it any better?

kind regards
Stephen Buckley

Note: More John Keel quotes: UFOs Operation Trojan Horse: some gems


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Stephen Buckley
E-mail: stephen@chodesh.info
Last revised: 19 Oct 2011.